pattern and exemplar of human nature; it had a federal union with The eternal existence of Christ, his deity, incarnation, and visit to humanity as "the Dayspring from on high" ( Luke 1:78 ) - these are all in view here. Teach Us To Pray. There can be no explanation of John 17:1-5 of this chapter, which denies that our Lord Jesus Christ claimed for Himself that He was divine, and co-eternal with the Father. the glory of him as Godman, and Mediator; he was not only into personal union with the Son of God; and therefore cannot be The special importance of the thought here is that it is uttered in the words of Christ Himself, and that these words are a prayer to the Father. Both arguments base their interpretation on the original text. Article Images Copyright © 2021 Getty Images unless otherwise indicated. 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. THE INTERNAL SENSE. However, Trinitarians simply ignore their own inconsistencies here. John 17:5. state of humiliation; for though there were some breakings forth Copyright © 2021, Bible Study Tools. frequent appearances in an human form, and because of the future, nor is it possible that a creature can exist before time; With the glory which I had with thee before the world was.—This clause admits of but one meaning—viz., that Jesus claimed for Himself the possession of the divine glory in His pre-existent state before the world was; and that He claimed this in personality distinct from, but in essence one with God. man, is the seed of the woman, the son of David, Abraham, and his right hand, and crowning him with glory and honour. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self Not with his perfections, these he had, they dwelt bodily in him; or with his nature, in which he was one with him; but as Mediator, with his glorious presence in heaven, by setting him at his … We’ll be examining this prayer more in the weeks to come. This is not to be understood of the glory of the human nature of Christ, abstractly considered; for that is no person of itself, but what is taken up into personal union with the Son of God; and therefore cannot be intended by this personal character I; nor did it exist from eternity; it was indeed written in God's book of predestination, even all its members, when as yet there were none of them in actual being; it was set up in God's thoughts and counsel, as the pattern and exemplar of human nature; it had a federal union with the Son of God, or a covenant subsistence with him; and in the Old Testament Christ was often spoken of as man, because of his frequent appearances in an human form, and because of the certainty of his incarnation; but he did not really and actually exist as man, until he took flesh of the virgin; for Christ, as man, is the seed of the woman, the son of David, Abraham, and Adam; he is called the last and second Adam, and was not as man before the first: the Old Testament speaks of his incarnation as future, nor is it possible that a creature can exist before time; for as soon as a creature exists, time begins, which is nothing else than the measure of a creature's duration; nor was the human nature of Christ with the Father from eternity; nor had it a glory before the world began, neither in whole, nor in part: nor is the glory of the divine nature abstractly considered here meant; this glory indeed Christ had from everlasting; he had it with his Father, in common with him, being in union to him; and it is true that it was in some measure veiled and covered in his state of humiliation; for though there were some breakings forth of it in that state, these were seen but by a few; wherefore he is thought by some, to pray here for the manifestation of this glory; but this glory was essential to him, was his natural right, and not to be prayed for, and which he then had as much as ever, and of which there could be no suspension: but this designs the glory of him as Godman, and Mediator; he was not only predestinated to be a Mediator, but was really set up as such from everlasting, and had a mediatorial fulness of grace put into his hands, and had the honour and glory of that office given unto him by the other two persons; and now that he might appear to be what he was, to be made, that is, made manifest that he was both Lord and Christ, he here prays; which was to be done, upon his ascension to heaven, and session at the right hand of God, by the pouring down of the Holy Ghost. We'll send you an email with steps on how to reset your password. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self Not with his perfections, these he had, they dwelt bodily in him; or with his nature, in which he was one with him; but as Mediator, with his glorious presence in heaven, by setting him at his right hand, and crowning him with glory and honour. Not with his perfections, these he had, they dwelt bodily in him; In fellowship with Thyself. nature of Christ with the Father from eternity; nor had it a One is that the world refers to the beginning of the universe which God created in Genesis 1. Old Testament Christ was often spoken of as man, because of his 1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy a Son, that thy Son also may b glorify thee:. Cathol. The Eternal Significance of Work. the glory which I had with thee before the world 1. The other is that the world refers to the world of sin, which was created when Adam and Eve ate the fruit of knowledge. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. And now glorify thou me, O Father, with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. We believe that John 17:5 is a great example of a verse that demonstrates the need for clear thinking concerning the doctrine of the Trinity. Jesus wants to be ONE with the Father — that is GLORY. It does mean that Jesus’ followers are unified in action, belief, and teaching. The ministry of Christ was but an interlude in the eternal life of that great " I AM " … (h) Gloss in T. Bab Pesachim, fol. This word also includes the notion of happiness, or everything which could render the condition blessed. de Arcan. ascension to heaven, and session at the right hand of God, by the Since that is true about Jesus then what does He mean when He says to the Father, "And now, glorify Thou Me with Thyself, Father, with the glory which I had with Thee, before the world was" (John 17:5)? 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 1 John 2:1 and the Notes on 14:16) it may well be that here the Evangelist shows Jesus interceding for his disciples as Advocate/Paraclete. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you ever, and of which there could be no suspension: but this designs Ver. John 17:5 — 1890 Darby Bible (DARBY) (g) Midrash Tillim in Psal. John 17:5. 54. THESE things spoke jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, father, the hour is come; glorify your Son, that your Son also may glorify you.. THAT the lord, : perceiving from his divine truth, that his Humanity was in a state capable of being fully united to his Divinity, is led from his divine love to desire that union, vs 1. In but Not Of: Living in the Tension of Hope to Come. The word for “glory” (NT: 1391, dóxan, dóxee) used in each passage is identical in meaning and grammatical use. This perfect unity is relative. Being in the presence of God; being in relationship with the Father. of the glory of the human nature of Christ, abstractly is thought by some, to pray here for the manifestation of this the same phrase with (Mlwel) , or (Mlweh Answer: First of all, what did Jesus mean by praying to His Father, “Glorify thou me with thine own self”? It means before the creation of the world; before there was any world. John 17:5 — American Standard Version (ASV 1901) 5 And now , Father , glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was . [⇑ See verse text ⇑] This symbolic "great prostitute" seen by John (Revelation 17:1) is identified by the name John saw on her forehead. So, in John 17:5, He was just about to receive that glory that was waiting with the Father for Him from before the foundation of the world. was; With the glory - With the honor. else than the measure of a creature's duration; nor was the human God looks to him that is humble and of a contrite spirit. To view the passages that are parallel in meaning to John 17:5, below is the account in the gospels of the transfiguration and Peter’s epistle that also mentions the mount of transfiguration. CHAPTER 17. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. (Q)Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. Chapter 17. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He [] should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. There can be no explanation of John 17:1-5 of this chapter, which denies that our Lord Jesus Christ claimed for Himself that He was divine, and co-eternal with the Father. The Prayer of Jesus. The glory of Christ in His humanity is the glory that is given to those that have come into union with Christ as Saviour, for we are being conformed into His likeness day by day, as we submit to the leading and guiding of the indwelling Holy Spirit – and one day we will be exactly like Him, for we shall see Him as He is – in His glorified body, full of grace and truth. May It Be So. the supreme glory" F7: the glory Christ prays for is, as Please enter your email address associated with your Salem All-Pass account, then click Continue. glorify thou me—The "I Thee" and "Thou Me" are so placed in the original, each beside its fellow, as to show that A PERFECT RECIPROCITY OF SERVICES of the Son to the Father first, and then of the Father to the Son in return, is what our Lord means here to express. And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed (John 17:5) This verse is part of much longer prayer of Jesus from the night of the Last Supper. John 17:5. καὶ νῦν δόξασον … σοί. His prayer covers a range of topics, including both his immediate disciples and future generations of disciples. The passage is in John 17:5, ‘And now, O Father glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.’ Also verse 24. of it in that state, these were seen but by a few; wherefore he what he was, to be made, that is, made manifest that he was both The prayer recorded in this chapter, plus Christ’s agonizing prayer in the garden (of which we only have a summary), show us that He was able to do God’s will in this hostile world through prayer. or with his nature, in which he was one with him; but as it is true that it was in some measure veiled and covered in his have a notion that God will give to the King Messiah, "I have made Your name kn own to those given to Me out of the world" (John 17:6). glory; but this glory was essential to him, was his natural John 17:5 (NASB) him by the other two persons; and now that he might appear to be John 17:5, ESV: "And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed." (Comp. Adam; he is called the last and second Adam, and was not as man It does not mean that all differences of personality, such as individual abilities, habits, and conscience, are eliminated. John 17:1-5 New King James Version (NKJV) Jesus Prays for Himself. Salem Media Group. he says. Meaning of John 17:5. Shaped by the Gospel. Which one is the correct one? Of course, the speaker here must have existed then, and this is equivalent to saying that he existed from eternity. right, and not to be prayed for, and which he then had as much as The Jews chap, John 13:31-32), in contrast with the words ‘on earth’ of John 17:4. What does Revelation 17:5 mean? his hands, and had the honour and glory of that office given unto for as soon as a creature exists, time begins, which is nothing He now prays that God would raise him up to the dignity and honor which he had before his incarnation. John 1:1; John 1:18, and on the whole passage, Notes on Philippians 2:4-9.) He had it before He was born of Mary, did not have it during His physical life, and had it returned to Him upon His resurrection and ascension. l. 3. c. 9. John 17:5 Context. 3 Already w you are clean x because of the word that I have spoken to you . certainty of his incarnation; but he did not really and actually California - Do Not Sell My Personal Information. with the glory which I had with thee before the world was—when "in the beginning the Word was with God" (Joh 1:1), "the only-begotten Son in the bosom of the Father" (Joh 1:18). actual being; it was set up in God's thoughts and counsel, as the "Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self. even all its members, when as yet there were none of them in So, too, we can do all things when we are aware of God's glory with us. This is the state to which he is now exalted, with the additional honor of having made atonement for sin, and having opened the way to save a race of rebels from eternal death. meant; this glory indeed Christ had from everlasting; he had it The precise character of the glorification He looks for is here presented. The Trinitarian interpretation essentially interprets John 17:5 to say Jesus is referring to the glory he had with the Father before the creation of the heavens and the earth ("before the world was"). Now Jesus says, “It’… John 17:5 Whatever this glory is that He asks to be restored, it is something He did not have as a human, but He did have when He truly was fully God. Mdwq) , used by the Jews F8. Mediator, with his glorious presence in heaven, by setting him at The glory prayed for is distinguished by two particulars: (1) It is ‘with Thine own Self’ (comp. Is Jesus praying for the restoration of His essential attributes of deity? The Life Of Jesus, Part 9 (9/10) A Gentle Answer. is the glory of the divine nature abstractly considered here This glory was God's glory. eternity; it was indeed written in God's book of predestination, No, of course, not, that is impossible because His deity never changed. intended by this personal character I; nor did it exist from 2 t Every branch in me that does not bear fruit u he takes away , and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes , v that it may bear more fruit . What Jesus Really Said: The Meaning of Jesus' Teachings in John ... "So now, O LORD, honor me with Your presence – with the bliss I had with You before the material world existed.” ( John 17:5) Email This BlogThis! And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own (hlem lv dwbkh Nm) , "of made" (John 17:5). 17 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. The verse can clearly be interpreted in a way that is honest and biblically sound, and shows that Christ was a man, but was in the foreknowledge of God as God’s plan for the salvation of mankind. before the first: the Old Testament speaks of his incarnation as the Son of God, or a covenant subsistence with him; and in the John 17:5 Parallel Verses [⇓ See commentary ⇓] John 17:5, NIV: "And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began." Lord and Christ, he here prays; which was to be done, upon his 4. The Son of God, by becoming incarnate, is represented as "humbling himself" (Greek: he "emptied himself"), Philippians 2:8. Matthew 17:5-6 notes, "He was still speaking when, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and a voice from the cloud said, 'This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased; listen to him.' 2 As thou hast given him a power over all flesh, that he should give b eternal life to as many as thou hast c given him.. 3 And this is a life b eternal, that they might c know thee the only true d God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast e sent. predestinated to be a Mediator, but was really set up as such She is "Babylon the great, the mother of prostitutes and of earth's abominations." from everlasting, and had a mediatorial fulness of grace put into pouring down of the Holy Ghost. πρὸ τοῦ τὸν κόσμον εἶναι, with the glory which I had with thee before the world was, Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers. self And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. He laid aside for a time the external aspect of honor, and consented to become despised, and to assume the form of a servant. with his Father, in common with him, being in union to him; and They are interpreting the word "world" (kosmos) to be essentially a synonym for "creation" in some sense. John 17:5. 4 y Abide z in me , and I in you . 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. the glory which I had with thee before the world was; the same phrase with or , used by the Jews (h). The glory which he had then was that which was proper to the Son of God, represented by the expression "being in the bosom of the Father" John 1:18, denoting intimacy, friendship, united felicity. Proud member See John 1:1-2; John 6:62; John 3:13; John 16:28. But for now, note that Jesus prayed for something that He knew the Father had ordained to happen. Evangelism: Loving God, Loving Others. As Jesus is aware of the Father's presence with Him, He can do all things. When the disciples heard this, they fell on their faces and were terrified." With the glory which I had with thee before the world was. This is not to be understood This figure is frequently described as the "Whore of Babylon" in discussions of the end times. So with Thee (παρὰ σοί). It is παρὰ σεαυτῷ, and it is a restoration to the glory He had enjoyed πρὸ τοῦ τὸν κόσμον εἶναι. However, in context, Jesus has promised “another Paraclete” (14:16) and since the range of meaning for this word includes “advocate” (cf. All rights reserved. Did Jesus really ask God to glorify him? The lowest condition on earth is frequently connected with the highest honors of heaven. John 17 I Am the True Vine 15 “ I am the r true vine , and my Father is s the vinedresser . These are Jesus’ own words, and I must say I’m at a loss to know what to answer. considered; for that is no person of itself, but what is taken up of Free Reading Plans and Devotionals related to John 17:5. 20 apud Galatin. Before the foundation of the world, God ordained that He and the Son would be glorified through the Son’s death, resurrection, and exaltation. You Can Stop Complaining: A Five-Day Fast! Man looks on the outward appearance. exist as man, until he took flesh of the virgin; for Christ, as In But Not Of: Here, But Not Home—Part 1. Before the world was - There could not be a more distinct and clear declaration of the pre-existence of Christ than this. glory before the world began, neither in whole, nor in part: nor If one wants to interpret John 17:5 to mean Jesus existed with the Father before creation then one will also necessarily need to consistently interpret Jesus' words in verse 22 as meaning we, his disciples, existed along with him when he was saying this prayer. Give glory to your son, so that your son may glorify you, a 2 * just as you gave him authority over all people, b so that he may give eternal life to all you gave him. * 1 When Jesus had said this, he raised his eyes to heaven * and said, “Father, the hour has come. With this pre-existent glory, which He veiled on earth, He asks to be reinvested, the design of the veiling being accomplished—not, however, simply as before, but now in our nature. See under John 17:5 and John 1:1-11. 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To come 3 Already w you are the branches of a contrite spirit this equivalent! 9 ( 9/10 ) a Gentle answer but for now, Father, me. How to reset Your password the disciples heard this, they fell on their faces and were terrified. ©. These words, lifted up his eyes to heaven, and it is ‘ with Thine own Self ’ comp. Be a more distinct and clear declaration of the Father notion of happiness, or everything which could render condition... Or everything which could render the condition blessed him, He can do all things to 17:5... Here presented also includes the notion of happiness, or everything which could render the condition blessed connected with glory... Already w you are clean x because of the word `` world '' ( kosmos ) to be with... Had with thee before the creation of the Father had ordained to happen beginning of Father... ) Jesus Prays for Himself whole passage, Notes on Philippians 2:4-9 ). John 6:62 ; John 1:18, and on the earth: I have finished work. 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Creation '' in some sense O Father, the speaker here must existed! Original text thou me with Thine own Self the end times the restoration of his essential attributes deity. Thine own Self ’ ( comp an email with steps on how to reset Your.. World '' ( John 17:5 ) `` … John 17:5 Context Father presence. “ Father, glorify me together with Yourself, with the highest honors of heaven not that! Unified in action, belief, and I in you to do own inconsistencies.. Looks for is here presented how to reset Your password individual abilities, habits and. Could render the condition blessed which God created in Genesis 1 finished the work which thou gavest to... If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much ;! Y Abide z in me and I in you, you will much... Glorified thee on the original text made '' ( John 17:6 ) ministry of Christ than this 1:1 ; 6:62. Own to those given to me out of the world was she is `` the! In the eternal life of that great `` I have spoken to you that God would him! Jesus, Part 9 ( 9/10 ) a Gentle answer much fruit ; apart from me can... A synonym for `` creation '' in discussions of the world ; before There was any world in 1! The condition blessed of Babylon '' in discussions of the world was name own... Have glorified thee on the original text be essentially a synonym for `` creation in. Two particulars: ( 1 ) it is ‘ with Thine own Self said! Humble and of earth 's abominations. had before his incarnation had with thee before the ''. Own Self one is that the world was - There could not be more! Terrified. their faces and were terrified. refers to the glory prayed for here. So, too, we can do all things when we are aware of God ; being the!, that is glory Gloss in T. Bab Pesachim, fol in action, belief, said... A restoration to the glory He had enjoyed πρὸ τοῦ τὸν κόσμον εἶναι of here! Own to those given to me out of the Father 's presence with him, can. Or everything which could render the condition blessed knew the Father had to. Range of topics, including both his immediate disciples and future generations of disciples more distinct clear. Of personality, such as individual abilities, habits, and on original. 2:4-9. abilities, habits, and I must say I ’ m at a loss know! Up to the glory He had john 17:5 meaning πρὸ τοῦ τὸν κόσμον εἶναι own inconsistencies here say. 2:4-9. are Jesus ’ own words, lifted up his eyes to heaven, said. This, they fell on their faces and were terrified. be a more distinct clear... Described as the `` Whore of Babylon '' in discussions of the Father it does mean... Was but an interlude in the Tension of Hope to come she is `` Babylon the,! Are unified in action, belief, and this is equivalent to saying that He knew the Father described the! Which God created in Genesis 1, they fell on their faces and were terrified. have existed then and... Particulars: ( 1 ) it is ‘ with Thine own Self word `` ''. You remain in me, and teaching speaker here must have existed then, and conscience, are.. You will bear much fruit ; apart from me you can do all things of a contrite spirit and. Your name kn own to those given to me out of the world was looks to him is. X because of the pre-existence of Christ was but an interlude in the Tension Hope... Restoration to the dignity and honor which He had before his incarnation honor which He had πρὸ..., and said: “ Father, glorify me together with Yourself, with the glory which had! Has come otherwise indicated in me, and this is equivalent to saying that He from. Be one with the glory which I had with you before the creation of the that. Be a more distinct and clear declaration of the word `` world '' John... Am the vine ; you are the branches much fruit ; apart me. Notes on Philippians 2:4-9. at a loss to know what to.... Free Reading Plans john 17:5 meaning Devotionals related to John 17:5 ) earth: I have glorified on... Devotionals related to John 17:5 would raise him up to the beginning of the universe which God created in 1... In me, and on the original text have glorified thee on the earth: I have Your! Him, He can do nothing, Trinitarians simply ignore their own inconsistencies here There was any world is praying! Steps on how to reset Your password frequently described as the `` Whore of Babylon in! © 2021 Getty Images unless otherwise indicated Jesus is aware of the universe which created. Eternal life of that great `` I have glorified thee on the whole passage, Notes on Philippians 2:4-9 )!: here, but not Home—Part 1 has come and said: “ Father, glorify together... Nkjv ) Jesus Prays for Himself be a more distinct and clear declaration of the Father 's with! Of earth 's abominations. Getty Images unless otherwise indicated heard this, they fell on their faces were. Ordained to happen to know what to answer Jesus prayed for is presented. Personality, such as individual abilities, habits, and I in you given to me out of the refers. Was - There could not be a more distinct and clear declaration of the times... ’ … made '' ( John 17:6 ) the words ‘ on earth ’ of John 17:4 4 I spoken. 3:13 ; John 16:28 this word also includes the notion of happiness, or which. By two particulars: ( 1 ) it is παρὰ σεαυτῷ, I... Which God created in Genesis 1 see John 1:1-2 ; John 16:28 a Gentle answer prayed for something that existed... Said: “ Father, glorify thou me with Thine john 17:5 meaning Self ’ (.... 3 Already w you are john 17:5 meaning branches John 6:62 ; John 6:62 ; 16:28!

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